The initial combo he was talking about is similar to this http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL%2D20314&autoview=sku part of the reason they are so expensive is because of the polished intake and carb, the setup is about 100-200 bucks cheaper if you buy it seperate in the satin finish. The dual plane aluminum intakes give several advantages over the stock cast iron intakes. Heat dissapation, weight reduction( if you pick up a cast iron intake in comparison to an aluminum you will notice a big difference.) also around here it is impossible to find a cast iron 4bbl intake anymore, all of the old cars got junked for scrap metal when the prices went up in the last year or so.. Edelbrock makes a good carb as does holley if you know of people who run Edelbrock, or Carter carbs and are willing to help you tune it then I would strongly reccomend getting an Edelbrock. Lack of knowledge on how to tune a carburetor has turned more people from one brand to the other because they don't understand how it works and can never get it to run right. Take me I run a Carter 625 cfm, I have almost always run the AFB carburetors and I know how to tune them, now throw a holley in front of me even though I know they are good carbs and chances are I will make it run way to rich or to lean, fiddle around with it for a couple of days finally get really pissed off at it, take it off and put an edelbrock on have it tuned within a short time and be done with it.(I know this happens to atleast me I bought a truck with a holley 650(i think it was a 650) on it dinked around with it for about a week gave the carb to a buddy of mine for a 12 pack of Bud put an edelbrock 750 on it and didnt have another thought about it.
All of the stock Ford small block intakes were dual plane designs. The only single plane factory intakes were pieces cast for the 427's. The benefit of the intakes I listed are their increased plenum and runners, the provide more area in each case, but not so much that it hurts the bottom end breathing like a single plane does. When you increase the plenum (area under the carb pad) and runners, you eventually get to a point where the intake charge velocity drops off in the lower rpms, this causes the power produced to drop off untill the engine reaches the rpms where the cylinders can pump enough air to raise the velocity. A high rise dual plane (the RPM, RPM airgap, Ford A321 & Stealth) is a compromise between those intakes like the Victor Jr. & Parker Funnel Web and the stock intakes. They have the plenum area almost like the single planes, but this area is divided in half (into two planes) thereby increasing the low speed velocity to nearly the same as the stock intakes, while still giving nearly the top end of the single planes
my experience on holley double pumpers vs holley vac secondary vs edelbrock carbs is that the double pumper is the only way to go. if you want gas milage go get a prius (i have one, it gets 47 mpg). if you want the best milage out of you mav then stay with the 2 bbl carb (2 barels on the carb answering earlier queston) or put fuel injection on. as for gas milage between the holley dp, vac sec., and edel carb, i find the weight of my foot has more to do with mpg than the carbs. ive played alot with all three on my cars and friends cars. always i and my friends are the happyest with a double pumper. the throttle responce is way better than the others and if you just cruse, the carb only runs on the first two barells just like the other carbs. the double pumper will give you the most power of the three.
Here is the quote from the Edelbrock site: Performer (Idle - 5500 RPM) Patented Dual-plane, low-rise design with a 180º firing order greatly improves torque over a wide rpm range for excellent throttle response from off-idle through 5500rpm. Performers are ideal for passenger cars, trucks, 4x4s and RV's. Performer RPM (1500 - 6500 RPM) A dual-plane, high-rise designed with a 180º firing order greatly produces incredible top-end horsepower while retaining great throttle response. Their larger plenums and runners match high-lift cams, free flowing exhausts and other modifications of a high-output engine. Great for street or strip. You will notice that the manufacturer says that the PLUS manifold performs better beyond the transition from idle (1500rpm) to 6500 while the performer performs from IDLE to 5500 which is exactly what a STOCK cam needs. The stock cam will peak at about 4800 rpm - the new manifold will provide for the use of any of the RV cams and at least one step above the RV cams with mild performance and peak HP at 5500 rpm. All of these cams would be an increase in performance over the stock cam and within the limits of the Performer manifold. The stock iron manifold is much more restrictive than the Performer. http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/ford/ford.shtml
You can quote all the advetising you want from Edelbrock, I've ACTUALLY used both and there's no noticeable difference in the bottom end performance of either. This is true for all high rise dual plane intakes. The Performer is simply an aluminum version of the stock factory low rise 4 bbl intakes and as such is a waste of money if you plan on future upgrades. If you're going to buy one, buy it second hand and save yourself some money. Used factory 4 bbl intakes go for $50-$75, I wouldn't pay more than that for any Performer intake, if I were inclined to do so.
If you want gas mileage wait till next year and get one of the new Fiestas they get 50 mpg and don't even have to be a Hybrid, they look alot better than those things and plus its a Ford we are not selling ourselves to the Japanese economy
The Performer is not an aluminum version of anything. It is an independently engineered and patented manifold designed for performance - not used by the OEM folks. Manifold manufacturers spend a great deal of time and money on research and development to get things right. After porting my heads I checked the performer intake that I have and it was already the same size as the gasket - there is no port matcing needed. The iron intake from the factory has runners that are smaller and the plenum is smaller too. baddad, you say you tried both - with what cam? What compression? what gears? How did you check the difference - on a dyno? or by the seat of your pants? The manufacturers use dynos (engine dynos) to check the performance after a lot of work on the flow bench. If they thought that the PLUS would work best for either application why would they waste the time and money to engineer and patent two models? If you have imperical evidence then show it - back up your claims - or believe the maufacturers specs. I am not saying that you should believe me - I don't have the means to test the products but the manufacturers do - and they spend a lot more money on it than you or I could together.
www.discbrakeswap.com he's great to work with, i ordered from him when he was just starting and coincidentally he accidentally sent my kit with the wrong spindles, after calling him, he sent me the right spindles and told me to keep the others and he paid for shipping. i paid 550 for my kit.
I've both used them and seen dyno sheets using all the small block intakes. Among the Performer, and the stock O.E. intkakes, there wasn't 5 hp difference between em. That diffference isn't enough to justify your claims. Place em side by side and there's very little if any diffference in the castings as to runner design and size, ditto for the plenums. And I've also compared the ports of them, all the edelbrock intakes have smaller ports than th comparable Ford factory intakes. I've used the RPM and the Ford A321 on stock roller 5.0's and all worked flawlessly from idle to whenever the motor stopped breathing. My current 5.0 in my 89 Ranger is the equivalent of an Explorer 5.0, but carbed with an A321/Holley 570 combo, it starts and idles with no choke, in temps down to 25*F. It has no dead spots in the powerband, pulls all the way to valve (rather roller lifter) float. If I didn't tell you it was carbed, you'd swear it was an EFI motor. I've used the RPM on a completely stock 88 Crown Vic roller 5.0 topped with a Holley 600VS carb, it too, performed flawlessly from idle to valve float, this was a motor that Ford rated at 150 hp. I've used similar high rise dual planes on 390's(428PI, a 427(427MR), and 351's (Ford C9OX) in builds from stock (351 & 390) to wild (the 427, stroked to 454, this one actually wanted more on the topend in the form of a LR427 2x4 topped with twin Holley 600's) Edelbrock likely test's their intakes with their carbs, that could account for the missing bottom end. I use nothing but Holleys. Your expertise seems to be in transmissions, but when it comes to engines, you give out some really misleading advice.
ok when my wife and i were shoping for a fuel efficent vehical for her a year ago the fiesta was not and still is not avaible. also its rated at 50mpg, i really doubt that it will get it. i am not a fan of the prius's looks but the car blew me away when i test drove it. the features it has compared to every thing else we looked at. gas milage was our concern and the prius was the best at the time and currently for gas milage. i would rather give my money to japan than opec. now toyota is starting to build prius in the u.s.a. where the american manifactures are closing plants and laying off workers. as for the intakes i feel that the performer is not really worth the price. i consider the performer rpm or wieand stealth a good intake to start with
That thinking is the reason American manufacturers are laying off workers. All they are doing is assembling them in the US with japanese parts....When they brought out the new tundra they had to state that on all of their commercials. You might want to check this article out it explains it better http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25375103/ This paragraph says it the best. "Chrysler employs about 83 workers for every 2,500 vehicles sold, Ford employs 80 and General Motors 71, according to the Washington-based Level Field Institute. By comparison, Toyota employs 33 American workers for every 2,500 cars sold."....... Also the move of the Prius to the US will not create any more jobs because they are changing the failing Tundra lines over to the Prius. Just like the Fiesta and the other new Fords are being put in place of the truck and large suv lines in the US. And you are still selling yourself to OPEC Japan is part of the OPEC consortium just like the US
So you applaud Ford,Chevy,Chrysler for being inefficient.I will let you think on that for a minute........... Most of the BIG 3 use parts from Mexico,China, Canada and assemble some of their vehicles here. However,Many of them are assembled in Mexico or Canada . I applaud Toyota's efforts to make jobs here.
If you want others to buy into your arguements, try using some other medium than MSNBC. Obama's biggest media supporter. And since when did Japan start producing it's own oil?
fist off I AM A FORD GUY. but ford was not offering a vehical that came even close to the milage of the prius. the focus is junk. the prius is my wifes car and our primary transpo on weekends and eveings. i drive a 95 f150 to and from work and the mav is my toy. there is a good reason why toyota is the #1 car manifacture in the us right now. gm who was there has had their heads so far up their a$$'s that they have been makeing ugly cars for the last 10 years, they gave it away. the only impressive thing ford has done is the new mustang and the ford gt. chrysler is starting to get in the game with beter quality products sence it became german owned. the hemi is the best marketing ive seen in a long time. hopfully the new owners will keep up what the germans brought to the table.
I guess the best way to put it is this. When I grew up we watched Zenith RCA and Philco tv's they were built by Americans and they were bought by Americans the question is this. What happened to those companies? What happened to the jobs that were provided by those companies? Why is my alarm clock made in China, why is my blended made in Taiwan, my JVC(Japanese Victor Company) stereo in my car isn't even made in Japan anymore, it's made in China....so basically we are buying crap sending our money to Japan and they are sending out maybee 1/4 of the money we sent to them to pay the chinese wages....What is wrong with this picture. "And since when did Japan start producing it's own oil?" Thats like saying when did the US join OPEC?....(I will give you a hint we didn't, but they support OPEC just as much as we do so you send money to them it go's straight to OPEC, if you don't believe me look up their website)....oh and I could give a rats A** about Obama if you would have paid attention that article was written by Forbes and posted by MSNBC... As for this statement "Most of the BIG 3 use parts from Mexico,China, Canada and assemble some of their vehicles here." First I am sure our members here in Mexico and Canada appreciate the jobs as much as the US does and if you would look at how much of the vehicles are produced in the US you would be surprised, my explorer when I bought it is 85% US components but it is still interesting that if you give more people in Mexico and Canada jobs it helps the US economy? Hmmm go figure....
