I can't find out easily, can I?

Ok I spoke with the guy I bought the Grabber from yesterday, he stated that the transmission and 351 W in it are both from a 1969 Mustang Mach 1, ok np there, but what has me concerned is, he also stated (and this is how it got bent valves) that his brother in law, put a cam in it for him, he couldn't see very well and didn't line up the timing dots correctly, now what has me bothered is he also said something to the effect that the cam has a 512 lift :16suspect (you gotta understand this guy works on Harleys, not cars) I asked about more detail on the cam and he was unable to tell me anything more, now my concerns are this........with that much lift (if it actually is that) stock heads and stock springs, pressed in bolts and stock rockers, I think it will be nothing but problems, I mean can't that much lift pull the pressed in bolts out? there are two bent valves in the passenger side head, I was gonna have them replaced but now thinking about going with some other heads I heard about that someone I know has (don't know yet what brand but they are aluminium) I was told I would only need to buy some roller rockers and bolt them on.........on to the questions I have, #1. as asked before, can't that much lift pull the pressed in bolts out? and #2. if I get the aluminium heads what roller rockers will I need to get? #3. will the brand of heads dictate what style/size rockers I need? and finally #4. how do I find out what cam is there?
Sorry if these are silly questions but I was always told, "if you don't know something.....ASK "

 

If they are truely 69 heads they have 2 less intake bolt holes in them and unless you are worried about keeping everything original, which I doubt you would be I would go with the aftermarket heads. Those heads are not really anything special as far as performance goes, unless they have had alot of work done to them, and with all the stock stuff you mentioned I doubt they have. Yes that much lift can pull the stock pressed in studs out of the heads. I guess you could use a dial indicator on the valve side of the rocker and turn the motor over by hand slowly and see how much it drops away from a fully closed position. I could be wrong maybe some one else that has better experience will chime in.

 

I think I would check more than just the heads/cam...

 

What u talkin bout' Frank? The piston under the bent valve has just a small nick in it from the valve, he said something about the heads being D00E something or another, said people want those, but like I said he works on Harleys.

 

I hadn't realized that the 1969 Mach I's had the 351w.

For some reason, I was of the impression that these cars rolled off of the assembly line primarily housing 302's, 351c's, or 390's - ?

 

My son had a '69 Mach 1 with a factory 351W 4BBL. IIRC, some '70s had the 351W and some had the 351C.

 

Would a 1970 head be in a 1969 Mustang motor? Something seems weird.

I had some D0OE heads in my maverick. they were pretty worked over with some porting, screw in studs, etc. I eventually switched to some out of the box used Trick Flow heads and got a good power increase, the kind you can feel, not just dyno numbers and track times. If you want to make power, you gotta get good heads. everything else is a waste without good heads.

 

I think what Frank is thinking about.............the same as myself...............
is that if the cam was put in wrong.........buy a near sighted person
then I would be pulling the motor apart to see what else has been done by
this person who couldn't see.
So it sounds like you will be pulling the engine down anyway to see where the timing mark it.............my guess is that it is ok...........but you should be able to get a number or manufacturer on the front of the cam.
Yes, I'd be pulling the heads off at a minimum..........and set them aside for some other project/trade/sell................and get the aluminum heads....
again depending on how old they are and what kind of condition. (As a side not I was ready to purchase a complete set of Yates C3 heads..........and took them to my head guy..............he checked the hardness and they were below what he would recommend running on a race motor because they had been used up.....so I passed)............look at the bottom of the head (the deck that goes on the block) and if the bottom side is not shinny, but more of a dull aluminum.............run away, don't just walk as this is a sign that they have had a pretty hard life and may not hold a seal very well...................and the cost to have them re-treated is more expensive than buying new heads because if they have steel seats, they will need to be taken out before the heat treating can be done...........and
there are no guarrantees it will bring the head back to its original condition........................just something to think about when buying used aluminum heads.
Heads are the real key to unlocking hp and tq in the SBF..........personally factory heads are not worth the effort............but for a street motor may be ok............just depends on how much hp you want to make.
As for checking the cam........pull a rocker off........put a dial indicator on the push rod and see what you get...........................again, if it were me I'd be pulling the motor to see what you really have..............IMHO

 

ok, I'm going to cheat and just quote a Ford guy from another forum since it appears that most of his information is correct from my experience as well(wasn't aware of the later motors using those heads though). Plus.. it's shorter than my response would have been on the matter. lol

as for my personal opinion on the matter.. I've had 3 sets of these with 2 sets ported(1 ending up on 400hp 351w.. and the other on a 302 probably pushing 350'ish). Knew plenty of others running them too. But.. that was way back when there wasn't much aftermarket support for the small Ford stuff and we had to make do with what we had. Much easier swap than a Cleveland head was at the time and used to be fairly popular due to the smaller 302-like combustion chamber. They can get the job done on anything up to moderate builds(a bit over 400hp).. then you are just leaving too much power on the table and wasting cash over even a cheap Procomp setup, IMHO.

If you check ebay and some other mail order sites out.. Procomps can be had fully equipped at around $600. When you crunch numbers and compare.. you'll end up with near $500(or well more if you really want them ported well) in those original heads just to even come close to the chinese knock-offs out of the box flow numbers.. then they won't seem like such a good deal.

Sell the heads to recoup some of the cost and don't fool with them would be my best advice on the matter.

As for the cams numbers.. they are typically on the rear flat of the cam(and I've despised them many times over the years for that).. so it will need to be pulled to locate them. Or if you're trying to save time and cash at this juncture.. check the timing marks to be sure they are aligned.. and then run a dial indicator on a lifter to measure lobe lift and multiply the rocker ratio to see what you've got for lift. If you want to go even further.. degree the cam and see exactly what you have there without needing to pull it. True TDC is usually off from the balancers mark as well.

 

Never mind on the heads, they were not aluminium, they do however have screw in studs but they are from a 302, e7te, and I would have to have the holes drilled on them to get them to bolt on, so still looking in some others.

 

What holes are would have to be drilled to make those heads fit? They should bolt on without problem. If they already have screw in studs and the heads are cheap they might be a good thing depending on where you want to end up power wise. groberts101 has given you some good info. See I knew there was a way to check the lift, I was just thinking about doing it with removing the heads, but if you have bent valves they are going to have to come off anyways, wasn't thinking. Something not mentioned in there that I already brought up is that the 69 W( and maybe all 69 and earlier sbf heads) has one less intake bolt for hold down which makes thems kind of an oddity. Might not make a difference to some one because I believe the later model intakes still bolt on.

 

Seems I was told the 351w bolts to hold the head on are larger than the 302 bolts, so the mounting bolt holes will need to be bigger, plus I have to worry about the springs handeling the 512 lift, I may get them anyhow and have it done, dover cylinder head shop here says he's not set up to put screw in studs in ford heads, just chevy, but Mullins Machine shop can do it (screw in studs for the D0OE) or drill the holes larger on the other (E7TE) heads for me.

 

yYes the 351W uses 1/2 bolts and 302 uses 7/16 bolts., forgot about that part.