I have a source that has both a 351W and a 351C that I could use for one of my cars. If I install it in my Grabber or Comet GT, which will be the easier installation, W or C? I do not plan on installing headers. I do not want to cut my shock towers. I have read several threads about major install problems, especially in the area of the exhaust. Should I just forget it and look for a 302? Opinions, please. Jim
i think ive read that the W will fit a little better and ive seen one in a maverick with out mods to the shock towers, even tho that probably wouldnt hurt. they are a little taller so youd have to keep that in mind when decidint intake/carb/aircleaner(hood scoop) options but i'd definatly get one or the other before i down graded to a 302
Don't the 351 and 302 have about the same block? I thought the biggest difference was in the heads between the W and C. I don't know what the exact difference is between the Windsor and Cleveland, but I've heard of guys putting those heads on 302's.
i think the W's and 302's are very simular but the W's have a taller deck hight Boss 302's were pretty much a 302 block with 351C heads
i had a 351w in mine, at one time, with no shock tower mods. was a real pita to change spark plugs. i would not do it again. i would stick with a 302 and stroke it to 331 or 347. JMO
If you don't want to shave the towers back some, then you probably don't want either. The 351w is the tallest of the 3 engines with a 9.5" deck height. In comparison, the 302 is 8.2", while the 351c is 9.2". This makes the W the tallest of the bunch. It has 302 style heads though, so it's not the widest by itself. HOWEVER, the exhaust on the 302 and 351w comes out ot the side of the head, right at the shock towers. So headers directly interfere with the towers and primary size is limited. The 351c has the wider heads, so while it is not much taller than a 302, the heads/valve covers get very close to the towers. The exhaust is a little different though. The C has the exhaust flanges on an angle to the engine bay. They almost point down at the ground, rather than at the towers. So C heads can use much larger primary pipes on the headers and the routing of the pipes has almost nothing to do with the towers. Either 351 can be done without shaving the towers, and each has it's own list of benefits over the other. However, both are much easier with shaved towers. With exhaust in place, the W and the C are about the same width. No gain either way. The W gets wider with exhaust added, the C does not. So it's a wash. To me, if I had a source for either, I would go with the one that had the most desireable core. If your bud has a 70 4v Windsor and a 73 2v Cleveland, I'd be all over the Windsor. If it was the other way around, I'd be all over the Cleveland. I don't know if you will get away with iron manifolds either. I have heard that the W will go in our cars with the stock 302 Mav manifolds installed, but I don't know that for fact. I do know that certain Cleveland manifolds will go in a Mav with a pretty fair amount of modding... I have done it. That said, not all will work, they need serious grinding, and they will not work with manual tranny or column shift.
Here's a Cleveland without shaved towers. As you can see from the pics, spark plug changes (even getting the wires in) are a major undertaking without the shave. I had to pull my engine up in the air to get to mine. I'll never do that again. It is probably quicker to shave the towers ahead of time, than to change the plugs without the shave! Gotta watch your choice in valve covers too if you aren't going to shave. Mine had Moroso covers and could not be unbolted from the heads without raising the engine. Another problem that would have been solved with a shave. Here's the headers for the swap. They can be had for 2v or 4v heads. You can also vary the primary pipe size from 1.75" to 2.125".
you don't want a C, they are junk, nothing but paperweights, I'll be more than gald to drive 20hours down there just to get that hunk of junk out of your way
No need for you to drive it all the way home with it after you pick it up, drop it off in Michigan on the way through.
Can we see a pic of the front profile of a W and C engine out of the cars? Anyone know of any pics that compare the two? I would like to be able to see the angle of the exhaust coming out on both side by side. That sounds interesting that they exit almost downward on the C...
This is the best I can come up with. The W engine is a 302... but it gives the idea. Picture it even wider and closer to the tower, restricting the pipe size further. The other is the C, and shows how the ports exit the head at a better angle. The pics also show some big tube headers. So while it may look more cramped, you have to realize the one pic is a 302 with small primary pipes, and the other is the real deal with some BIG tubes.
Sorry about all the consecutive posts... Just one more for those considering a 351c and stock manifolds. The attached pic shows red lines going to several bumps, fins, and general protrusions of cast iron sticking off the manifold. The pic is of a 2v manifold, but all C manifolds have these sort of things hanging off them. Seems like they have 5 lbs of excess iron on them. Anyway, all these bumps and such need to be ground totally off the manifold for it to fit into a unshaven Mav. The engine will not fit with these things in place! I ground them all flat and smooth.
