just wondering if you guys think its worth swapping in a non roller engine...or anything earlier then then 87(non forged pistons) as pretty much all im finding are 84-86 302s for 250 or 350 also found a h.o longblock with about 6k on it for 650 Fresh 302 block that still has cross-hatching on cylinder walls! TRW forged pistons Matched stock rods Stock crank Matched Harmonic balancer & Flywheel EFI High Output Upper and Lower intakes Set of Stock E7 heads completley assembled Ford 5.0 Distributer Brand New High Volume Oil Pump and Drive Shaft This Engine is apart other than the Short block, which is still together w/ cam and Fresh lifters installed. I might take offers on the short block only, or the other parts too for that matter. just looking for a good v8 base power i know ho blocks are more power but i'd still have to hunt down carbed intake and carb and new distributer gear...and oilpan...possiby new headers? and i know the carbed engines only are rated at 150 to 170 depending on year, which doesnt sound all that fun..and since its a flat tappet cam..i'd have to make sure i add some kind of zinc/phosphurous additive like zddplus
I don't thimk there's anything wrong with the earlier blocks. A lot of guys are still using them. including me. But I do have an 87 roller block sitting in my garage for a project.
earlyer blocks are a little bit stronger than the h.o. blocks. the roller cam and being 15lbs lighter are the only advantages of the h.o. blocks. as for power thats more determined by the top end and the cam. you can get a roller cam conversion for older blocks. id get the older block and put a good top end on it.
Why are you limiting yourself to H.O. motors? Forged pistons? Big deal, Wow ! The other non H.O. rollers are just as good for build ups. Same block, crank and rods. And in the case of the 87-95 pickups, same heads too. The 94-97 5.0 pickup motor was the same long block as the Stang had, only had a slightly milder cam. (10 degrees less duration & .030 less lift on the exhaust) Forged pistons are not a requirement for a performance build. They're only needed for blown or Nitrous applications.
The biggest difference in the HP is the ratings. Pre-72 it was SAE Gross, so a 68 302 was 210hp, in 72 it was like 140. SAE gross is no accessories, tuned exhaust, checked at the flywheel. After 72 it was SAE Net, all accessories on and running, HP and TQ checked at the back of the transmission with full exhaust. SAE Net is more accurate, but if you're running it hard, playing, you probably aren't running the AC, power steering pump is probably idling along, etc... Later it was changed again, and I don't know what the difference is, however, Ford is rating their engines at the flywheel and Chevy is rating theirs at the rear wheel. Bottom line, put a Comp Cams 270H in a 72 302 with stock heads and a 4bbl intake and headers vs a stock 88ish roller motor with the same bolt ons, carb, headers, etc, there really isn't much difference. The roller is a bit stronger, yes, the low RPM torque is much better, but overall, both engines are a little over 200hp. The ratings changed much more than the engines. E7 heads are marginally better than the early 70's castings on the exhaust side. Early 70's heads actually outflow the E7's on the intake. If you know the limitations you're working with, you can build a helluva engine with either block.
oh i know, about the sae net and gross rating i'm just saying a non hoi is like 150 typicaly and i think gotton 180hp cetain years while h.o blocks were rated at 225...and the explorer version i think was more./. but i guess it doesnt really matter if i rebuild it..i'll just rock an 84 spec w/ 4v intake, headers and 2.5duals til it comes time to do a rebuild thanks for the into 74merc
The biggest difference between the Non HO and HO was the camshaft, heads and dual exhaust. Roller cam with a performance oriented profile, decent flowing heads, and dual exhaust vs stock smog smooth cam, E6 heads (some of the worst produced) and a single exhaust that flowed about as well as one side of a Mustang's. Just stock vs stock, the HO was nice. If going for an honest to God buildup, a roller cam is good for a street engine, but the lifters are too heavy for serious RPM. If I trip over an HO, I'll grab it, but it isn't the engine that makes the difference, its the entire package. You're welcome. edit: it was less like the HO was the big boy and more like they cut the legs out from under a stock 302.
You're using the wrong lifters. Crane makes a set of O.E. replacements that'll rev to 7500. As for the missing legs in a stock 302, that's not true for the 94-97 pickup/van 5.0's. They had the same cam that was later used in the Explorer 5.0. The thing that held it back was the funky exhaust manifolds.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Ford kept putting some huge limitation on the engines, some bottleneck that limits the rest of the engine. And yea, I know there are better roller lifters, didn't realize there was a set of hydraulics that would do that. All of my projects have been flat tappet for years, so I haven't even looked into roller parts in detail in quite a while.
I know guys that run them to 7k+ on a regular basis. One guy ran 9.20s on a turbo 347 and a 5 speed in a fox body with the stock lifters. The 87-92 HOs are nice, and common around here (Detroit) but maybe not everywhere. The 96-01 Exploders are great candidates too, and have much better heads. The spark plug angle sucks, but from what I hear the stock exhaust manifolds will work, and as long as the rest of the engine is stock or close to it, they work just fine. I would grab an Explorer engine and swap the timing cover, oil pan, and use a regular carburetor intake. I would also swap in a stock HO cam and 1.7 Cobra roller rockers. That should be good for around 250 horse, maybe a little more and you wont have a ton of money into it. The 97-01 motors are a dime a dozen around here.
You'd do just as well leaving the Explorer cam in it. The specs aren't different enough to do the swap. This is basically the motor I'm running in my 89 Ranger, but with ported E7's. It's topped with a Ford A321 intake & Holley 570 SA carb. With the Explorer cam and 1.7's it'll boil the 275/60's on the rear on demand, pulls from idle to valve float (somewhere between 5500 & 6000) gets great mileage and is a blast to drive with the Toploader 4 speed and 3.73 rear.
